Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater)
So I’ve become a huge fan of Linux Haters blog because he makes some very valid points about Linux and the open source community in general and it got me thinking of why I moved from Windows to Linux in the first place.
Picture this, you just bought built a brand new computer and want to install the brand spankin’ new Windows Vista Ultimate, you plop down $300, and away you go! What does $300 get you? A bare minimum operating system with nothing but MS Paint and Media Player.
So you spend the next 45 minutes installing your bare minimum operating system, it takes 45 minutes because the initial install is 15gb, so by bare minimum I mean feature set, not file size. So after you get installed you try to use the Internet and realize that it didn’t detect any of your hardware (video, audio, network), so you spend the next 2 hours spidering through multiple vendor’s websites who all have their downloads/driver section in different areas.
Now you have all your drivers downloaded, you go to install them to find out that the majority of the installers only extracted the files to your disk, they didn’t install them, the installer did not tell you they were only extracting, nor did they tell you where they were extracting them to. So after searching your disk and finding the extracted files you go into the folder to figure out what needs to be done to install them, but that is a waste of time since the vendor didn’t feel the need to write a README file. Being the genius that you are, you right click on My Computer -> Hardware -> Device Manager (because that was an intuitive place to look, thats the first place I thought of going to install drivers!) and now you are prompted with a dialog with a list of “Unkown Device” with little exclamation point next them. What to do? Easy! You right click on it, go to properties -> details and look at the very intuitive and easy to read string “PCI/VEN_1002&DEV_AA08&SUBSYS_AA081545&REV_00\4&1245FE7B&0&0108″ and go to http://pciids.sf.net and search for each device so you can figure out what driver to install for it.
After you have all your device drivers installed and can utilize all your hardware, you’ll want to go to Windows Update to make sure your computer is completely secure. You run the first batch of updates and it asks you to reboot, when it comes back up it doesn’t tell you all your updates weren’t finished, but using your spidey sense, you know that couldn’t have been all! So you go back to windows update to find a whole mess of updates waiting for you, these ones will also ask you to reboot (and so will the next 3 or 4 groups of updates). Rebooting is good for your new system, gets it warmed up.
4 reboots and 230 updates later you decide you would like to edit some family photos for your Christmas postcards–no problem-Vista comes with the all powerful MS Paint, which can do everything you’d ever want to do, just check out what this guy did with it: MS Paint Skills!.
Editing family photos was fun but now you would like to add everyones birthday to your calendar and setup some re-occurring tasks to remind you to take out the trash and pay bills on time, but you’ll soon have shut off notices and piled high garbage because there is no default calendaring program in Windows! But your boss will save the day, he just called and needs your latest TPS Report so you need go to open up your spreadsheet but you find out there is no spreadsheet program either, so you hike down to your local computer shop and plop down $300 for the office suite with the added benefit of having outlook (yay a Calendar for $300!!).
Spend the next 30 minutes to install Office (yes, office takes about as long to install as your whole operating system, but office is more powerful than your OS, so its O.K), after office is installed and you update your TPS report and send it to your boss you decide you’d like to create a vlog (Video Log) and post it on youtube, but as you’ll soon find out, Movie Maker isn’t going to be the easiest thing to locate.Bill Gates can’t even find it.
Six hundred dollars and 7 hours later you have an almost usable computer, you still can’t watch DIVX or DVDs, burn Audio CD’s, Balance your checkbook, Sync your phone to your calendar and e-mail, or entertain your children with any games but minesweeper or solitaire. You don’t even have a virus scan program yet!
I probably went around the block just to get next door, but my point is that after a simple 20 minute install of any popular Linux distribution I can do all of the things I’ve listed above. They come with the majority of hardware supported out of the box, an office suite (open office, abiword, gnumeric, evolution, etc), multiple graphic tools (gimp, inkscape), easy package manager that handles updates without multiple reboots (rpm, yum, yast, zypper, apt-get, package kit), video recording program (cheese), cd burner (Brasero, Wodim), lots of fun games, and the ability to balance your checkbook with GNU Cash.
You’re right - although your example is somewhat extreme and overlooks the fact that a perfectly good office suite - OpenOffice.org - is available free for Windows as well as Linux, as are a whole host of AV/security products (AVG, Zone Alarm etc).
I, too, made the change from Windows to Linux a while back and the thing I miss the most - or don’t miss, actually - is the sense of security paranoia I got every time I switched on a Windows/Vista machine.
I recently used a Vista machine as part of a hardware review and after about 20 minutes of using it and being told I needed to update this, that and the other, then being asked “Are you sure you want to do this?” EVERY DAMN TIME, I was going mental!
Give me the simplicity, stability and security of Linux any time.
Comment by red devil — July 1, 2008 @ 4:21 am
But in Windows you still have to go trough the hassle of googling and downloading and then installing each and everyone of those programs.
Comment by gus — July 1, 2008 @ 5:14 am
You’ve made some very valid points about Windows Vista. But who really buys the Operating System, stand alone? The vast majority of Vista sales go with new computers, not a separate OS purchase. So by buying a new system installed with Vista you get many other goodies, such as the ability to burn cd/dvd’s, movie maker, and sometimes an evaluation version of MS Office. No, it’s not great, but it is nice to be able to bring home a new system and be up and running in minutes and be productive.
So while you made some very valid points as I said, it doesn’t make them 100% right, does it? I think that only a fool would go out and drop $300 for a version of Vista to install on their system, without first thinking the drivers issue through. Even brand new hardware isn’t supported by Vista, so is it really a surprise that some older hardware may not be supported too? I think Linux shares some of these issues with new hardware as well.
As for Linux, when I encounter issues, I use google to find solutions. Gee, I think Windows users do this too. Why I bet even Mac users have to use google once in a while. Why is it that Linux Advocates think searching google for Windows answers is so horrible, when Linux users have to use google for solutions too?
The logic used in this arguement fails to make its point, but it does speak very loudly, that you think anyone using Windows is nuts. That’s not advocacy, that’s flaming, and do we really need to continue the flaming OS wars any longer?
I see many advocates preaching the “freedom of choice” yet Windows users are blasted because Linux users seem to hold the opinion that Windows users are dumb and second class citizens. If it is a choice, then shouldn’t it be a users choice, and not have their decision made for them and crammed down their throat?
For my notebook, I have Vista installed, which came with the notebook. I’ve not had a bit of trouble with it on my Dell notebook, but I can’t really say that about Linux on my notebook. I’ve had issues up the ying-yang with it, until I installed Kubuntu. Now I have a dual boot notebook, with my primary OS as Vista.
My desktop is a different story. I have Linux and only Linux running it on it. My server? Linux again. My media server? Linux once again. Those are my decisions. I made a choice between Windows and Linux on various computers. It’s a choice that I made, not a choice that some “Windows-flaming, I’m superior because I use Linux, you should listen to me because I’m right and you are so wrong” Linux advocate forced down my throat.
I consider myself an “Interoperability Advocate” in that Windows and Linux (and other OS’s) can (and do)work together very well. It galls me to see articles like “10 Reasons Windows Sucks” or “10 Reasons You Should Use Linux.” Why does it gall me? Because the arguments presented are generally very weak in nature. To say Linux is not affected by viruses is a myth, along with the myth that Linux does not crash. I dare say that I have crashed Linux on my notebook more than Vista has crashed on my notebook.
So instead fanning the flames of the OS War, why not try to present that Windows and Linux can co-exist with each other? In the words of Rodney King during the LA riots “Can’t we all just get along?”
Comment by Dak — July 1, 2008 @ 6:14 am
@ gus - dude, they’re FREE. Surely a little effort by the user isn’t too much to ask? And they install with a double-click of the .exe - is that really too much like hard work?
Comment by red devil — July 1, 2008 @ 6:30 am
[...] Continue reading at Windows Hater [...]
Pingback by Linux Hater? Here Comes Windows Hater! » Sathya Says — July 1, 2008 @ 7:56 am
I think you were a bit extreme, exaggerating just a bit, but nevertheless, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Windows, in and of itself, is not a usable operating system. It requires a great deal of software, free or non-free, to install, making your operating system an actual operating system.
Comment by Aaron — July 1, 2008 @ 8:20 am
I guess everyones right. Windows sales comes mainly from buying new computers with windows installed on it already. With the loads of crippling slow trial versions that make that new computer slower than your old one and you need to clean it out, probably hire someone to uninstall lots of apps for you. That’s the norm. And lots of people prefer installing windows straight from the cd or dvd. It’s a lot cleaner to do so, you get to grab your own software selection. Because the software selection provided by computer manufacturers is usually total bullshit. The fact that people who purchase vista want to suck so much dick is because they need to try to justify why they spent over a hundred dollars for a piece of shit in the name desktop familiarity. The truth is that the kde 3.5.9 desktop is more familiar to an xp desktop than vista is familiar to an xp desktop.
What should we care about windoze loz0rz anyway? They slap down their own bucks for this wincrap. Windoze loz0rz are also clearly not as good with computers as those who know how to use different operating systems. Windoze loz0rz are also never power users, because you really can’t be a power user at all with windoze or else you’ll break it.
Linux is free.
Linux installs all of your drivers for you automatically.
Linux doesn’t have bullshit software.
Linux is secure.
Linux is starting to be offered by computer vendors.
Comment by Shamil — July 1, 2008 @ 9:38 am
Im a Linux Fan myself, but I did find a few missing things in this article. Windows Vista does come with basic tools for manipulating digital photos without the need for paint. Its called “Windows Photo Gallery”. Windows Media Player can also burn CDs too.
Plus, I don’t see how you can call Vista Ultimate a “bare minimum” OS, as it comes with a variety of default tools and programs, such as the dreaded Internet Explorer, Media Player, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, Windows Mail, several games than the two you mentioned like Chess Titans, Majhong Titans, and Purble Palace, Windows DVD Maker, and a couple other things that also come with Vista out of the box.
You did make some points about hardware driver installation and having to download a virus scanning program after you install.
Comment by WN — July 1, 2008 @ 9:39 am
As others have pointed out Vista does come with some applications, one you specifically mentioned was Movie Maker.
One other quibble is that Vista is able to play DVDs from the initial installation. This was not the case with XP, but Vista does have the DVD codecs installed immediately after installation.
That’s not to praise Microsoft though. Vista is horrendous to use, and I won’t ever install it again. Just make sure your facts are right before you go bashing somone.
Comment by Anthony — July 1, 2008 @ 11:27 am
This is the most stupid article I have ever read. You are clearly a person with the IQ of a shoebox. Either that, or you are just pure ignorant. And that goes for the rest of you “loz0rz” too, who can’t even spell, and thus create your own language to cover up your lack of skills.
Comment by Satan — July 1, 2008 @ 11:45 am
your article is dead spot on…..i`ll hurt those people who spent so many cash just to have a sluggish barely user friendly os….yup there are some things that even money can`t buy (a decent computer working on vista)…sad but true…it only leave us the satisfaction of being auto brain washing by flaming those who remember us how dumb we were by spending so many cash for so little on exchange….men im soo mad…and a lot poor than before… all those hard working hours for nothing…..i want my money back……
Comment by anony — July 1, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
Over the years of using MS Windows 3.11, 95, 98, ME, XP and Vista, I became allergic to everything the damn company released because I’ve been burned way too many times - BSODs, buggy software, you name it. I’ve developed a habit of removing all MS applications from Windows and replacing them with freedomware ones (the term Free Software as defined by FSF is way too ambiguous, so I use this one). These have proven much more stable and responsive.
When I tried Vista, I was disgusted. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in it is hostile towards the power-user.
It’s huge, slow and some of the parts (WRP for example) can’t be removed - this wasn’t so with XP, where I could get much better performance by removing its equivalent.
Its security model is wrong - there’s no way to login as a real superuser.
Active Desktop, which I used extensively is nowhere to be found.
Simple configuration dialogs are replaced with mindless wizard hell which forced me to set up my network settings from the COMMAND LINE (which is substandard in terms of usability).
And Aero looks just horrible… ugly smeared white stuff everywhere isn’t pretty.
It’s obvious what happened next: I downloaded a linux distro - something I wouldn’t even consider if Vista wasn’t such a disappointment - installed it and never looked back.
Comment by Peterix — July 1, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
Bashing; nothing good or constructive will come out of it. Compare apples to apples.
Got a HP TX2000 passive touch screen with vista premium preinstalled. With 2gb RAM, 250gb SATA HDD, DVD+-RW.
Machine was way too slow; tried to get help from HP to upgrade to XP, “they said no supported”.
Booted Sidux EROS DVD, found all the hardware (including touch screen, fingerprint reader). All told with dist-upgrade, installation was less than an hour. The only added progs were the LAMP stack, Boot manager, Synaptic and VLC.
Worked with it for about 4 days then decided to dual boot with XP (at work we have an app that only runs on xp).
Reformatted HDD and installed XP, then Sidux. It took about a week to correctly find the windows drivers. Everything worked on both OS.
Found out later company app will work with xp installed in virtualbox. Deleted xp partition.
At work I support UNIX/Linux/BSD/Windows/OS-X. If user decides they want whatever OS, it their choice. No need to
gorilla them to use something I’m comfortable with and they’re not.
Comment by PJ Cole — July 1, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
Another rant and rave about which system to use and what is better than what. Any operating system can have its ups and downs and yes, even the so-call perfect Mac. Since I am in the computer forensic security world I grow weary very fast when people start stating this is bad and this OS is the only one you should use. Linux, Windows and MAC do not run the world as it is the users choice and no maker of any operating system should cut down other ones because it just shows how ignorant people are. In my business I need to know all systems because companies use everything. I do not know about other people but when I purchase a new piece of hardware there is a disk with it which includes the drivers so how is everyone talking about this endless search for drivers. The other area is I have seen viruses and malware in the wild for both Linux and MAC systems so do not say there are not any. If Linux was not vulnerable than why are there firewalls and antivirus programs for it?
I worked for AT&T when we developed Unix so I am old school but I also believe in modernization of computers and their operating systems. The way some of you write you want us to remain in the dark age of computing and do everything by command only. Why should we when we can develop easy installs and uninstalls? You want to sit there and type commands for hours on end well go for it. I want programs I can install and be done with in 5 to 10 minutes. I watched Linux distros grow from command to one click installs and I love it. That’s improvement and if the geeks do not like it than create your own little distro and crawl in it and leave the rest of us to develop ones that people can use and like.
Comment by PeterPac — July 2, 2008 @ 2:33 am
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Someone point me to this fabled Linux distro that installs all my “drivers” for me. I will never have to visit Nvidia’s website ever again and surely I’ll never have to run their “installer” to compile a kernel interface. Oh, and I can get my long-neglected DVD remote to work on my Linux notebook! You know, the one that works out of the box with Vista?
Comment by Heartless_ — July 2, 2008 @ 7:53 am
[...] Hater (in response to Linux Hater) Posted in July 1st, 2008 by in Uncategorized Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater) Picture this, you just bought built a brand new computer and want to install the brand spankin’ [...]
Pingback by » Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater) A System Of A Down: What The World Is Saying About A System Of A Down — July 2, 2008 @ 11:44 am
I have little to say about this except, Good job. I’m glad someone has the time to do this sort of thing for us Linux users. (They have /too many/ doing it for Windows users.)
Comment by sunny beach — July 2, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Gee whiz, cant we just all get along OK.
JT
http://www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com
Comment by Jimym Dean — July 2, 2008 @ 8:44 pm
How did you know about my ubuntu install experience? i totally agree with how unintuitive installing drivers is. “sudo apt-get install ath5k.2.2008.5″? really? i wish there was an operating system where you didnt have to use the terminal to install drivers
Comment by john — July 2, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
Get a Mac.
Seriously.
I moved from Windows to Linux for most of the reasons listed above, back in the 98 -> XP transitional days.
I still love Linux, I think it’s brilliant… but for overall productivity in a workstation/desktop/laptop, you simply can not go past OS X. I’m a web developer by trade and my MacBook Pro, in unison with a handful of local and remote linux servers scattered around the globe, form a simply awesome arsenal. I wouldn’t even dream of including a Windows machine ANYWHERE in that mix, unless I felt compelled to put myself through an experience somewhat on par with driving rusty nails up my nose whilst snorting lemon juice.
Comment by richard — July 2, 2008 @ 8:54 pm
I think the article is extreme. In a reald world scenerio, you would buy Vista Ultimate OEM online for $149.00 NOT retail. You would install it and most drivers would be installed without any disks. The remaining items are easily identified, such as “ethernet device?”. You would not have to look at the PCI description. I recently installed the latest Ubuntu on a 3 year old Dell. It installed fine and found most drivers, but most of generic. It has updated 5 times in the last two weeks, and one time it broke, it would not come back on after 10-15 min of inactivity (not a sleep issue). Another thing that is not right is with the article is the argument about only having MS Paint. Vista has a good amount of aps like Media Center, Movie Maker, Windows Contacts, Mail , Calendar, Photo Gallery, VOICE RECONITION, Snipping tool and the Side Bar, too name a few. People get so obessed with not liking something that they don’t even know why.
Comment by vintechsys — July 2, 2008 @ 8:56 pm
meh……
Comment by mike — July 2, 2008 @ 8:58 pm
You either run ubuntu or have never really been responsible for a linux, unix, solaris, bsd system in your life. The statement alone that linux installs all of your drivers for you shows how little you actually know about linux. Please go get a blank disk, bootstrap your system, configure, compile and install your own kernel. That is the true power of linux. My guess is that you should just go back to XP because in 6 months after you’ve completely crippled your system due to a complete lack of understanding how it works you will be screaming that linux is not user friendly and sucks.
Comment by Sam — July 2, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
Haven’t used Vista lately?
Even the basic Home SKU has Photo Gallery, Media Player, Wordpad, Mail, Calendar (which will sync with your bluetooth phone). Not to mention if you get Ultimate, you get:
- An entire UNIX subsystem (Services for Unix)
- A DVR (Windows Media Center
- DVD playback right out of the box.
- Windows Movie Maker (brilliant if you haven’t used it yet)
- Windows DVD Maker (burn your movies onto DVDs with nice title pages and menus)
- Windows Contacts (Address book)
Unless you need Excel or Powerpoint (which you can get from Google online anyways), most users can do everything they’d like to do with windows right of the box.
In fact, I’d argue that these applications are of higher quality and are better integrated than many of their counterparts that come pre-installed in the average Linux distro.
Comment by keylimesoda — July 2, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
In Linux: Multiple options (software) to do one thing -> sux. There seems lack of speciality to perform tasks. Many choices to perform a task confuses. This is the weakness here.
Comment by hB — July 2, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
If you can’t work with GUI then yes you deserver to be stuck in front of the command line. Vista is new. It has a new architecture. It’s built from ground up. It eliminates DOS completely. These are changes. You won’t see drivers for new hardware the next day of vista release. I dont get how you can bash the driver model, considering linux has even less drivers and NOTHING seems to work in it.
Updates are in every OS. Updates are what makes an OS complete. After all we are all humans and we make mistakes therefore there are bugs/and security issues in every OS. MS just seems to find them faster and issue small updates rather than Apple who just does a HUGE update after a while. I’d rather my computer stay upto date rather then waiting forever for an update.
Theres not a single possibility that I believe that you’ve managed to setup Linux is 20 minutes while it takes 6 - 7 hours for Vista. Vista has a huge install but I bet you don’t even know what that install includes. Have you ever looked in to the System folder? By the way, most of the features are install on EVERY OS. Its just that in Vista Basic and Premium these are “disabled” and yes, there is a way around them.
I get it. You don’t like Vista. But if you must bash it then do it properly. It took me an 1.5 to setup my Vista Premium, Office 2003 (not 2007, so its a small install), my multifunction printer, all the drivers, and possibly another 30 minutes to get the latest updates. 2 hours MAX!
Comment by fenix — July 2, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
If you don’t want to use Vista, then don’t. Linux is so great! Don’t make me laught.
Study up here, then come talk about it.
http://www.promotinglinux.com/truth/
Comment by Vista SP1 — July 2, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
Assuming you bought a computer with Windows pre-installed over the past five years, you’re not going to have any of the issues you just mentioned. My computer came with Microsoft Works, Media Player, and Movie Maker, which is pretty much everything a basic user would ever need. I need more, however, so I do download more programs, but that goes for all the rest of us as well, regardless. The only time I have ever had to search for drivers was for my Archos mp3 player, and other than that everything either works right away or can be installed with the included disk.
The people who have problems with Windows are the people who have problems with Linux (or Mac), and vice versa. If you have any brains at all you won’t have a problem with any of the operating systems, and it’s simply a matter of choice. Personally, I use Windows because it gives me the widest range of software choices and also has the largest user base in case I need to read a tutorial on something. That goes for computer security as well.
@Shamil: Take your poor excuse of computer jargon and shove it down your idiotic pothole. It’s idiots like you who give Linux users a bad name.
Comment by Zach — July 2, 2008 @ 9:13 pm
Ha ha, that’s for reminding me what I’m missing
I made Linux my primary desktop about 2 years ago and haven’t looked back.
Comment by Slack5 — July 2, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
@PeterPac
Firewalls are to prevent access to services that should not be accessible to the public. They have nothing to do with preventing viruses. Also, the virus scanners made for linux scan for WINDOWS viruses. These are primarily used on servers that act as file servers or mail servers which pass files on to windows users. Yes, there are virus that exist for OSX and Linux. You could count the total number in the wild at any point in time for both platforms on one hand. However, history shows they have never had the ’success’ of their windows counterparts as the OS’s themselves are much more resilient. Someone involved with the development of Unix should understand this. I’m not trying to advocate any OS with these comments as I use all of the above for different purposes. I’m just wondering how someone in the computer forensic security world would not know these things?
Comment by shek — July 2, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
Maybe windows would include that stuff if ppl would stop suing them for including that stuff. Perhaps you remember companies like aol and netscape suing them in the 90s for including Internet Explorer. Windows in Europe can’t even inlude windows media player because its “anticompetitive.”
BTW, until linux comes out with a distro where you don’t have to use a stupid command prompt is the day ppl will start using it. You can’t expect the average user to memorize a bunch of commands and learn to use the prompt just to install a program (yes even ubuntu is guilty of this).
Comment by Yash — July 2, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
John, your little childish blog post shows just why many people avoid Linux users to begin with. Your lies and stupidity only work on your own kind.
Comment by Yonah — July 2, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
My favorite part is “walking around the block to go next door”. I had never heard that term the first time I used it but it was a situation similar to this. My biggest concern about not using windows (or mac) is the whole photoshop issue. Switching to a mac isn’t as “easy” as it seems, but I also havent had a ton of time either.
Good post!
Comment by mike — July 2, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
@Zach
You forgot word processing. It comes with notepad too.
If you’re a lucky SOB you might get an Office 2007 30 day trial. Did that come on your PC too, did you have to uninstall it? My Linux box came with Open Office which doesn’t try to con poor people into paying $300 for a crappy office suite.
Comment by Owen — July 2, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
Linix is garbage. It comes with 30 applications that all claim to do the same thing, so you don’t know which one is the best and which to install. So when you do finally finish you end up with an 8 gig install of BS. Oh lets not forget > NO GAMES and how often you are forced to compile your own software because crap never works properly. Sure its cool to bash Windows and say how free Linix is. You know you didn’t pay for windows anyways, so drop that argument. Did I mention games? How about just doing anything productive. Linix is a great idea, just horribly executed.
Comment by aaaaaaab — July 2, 2008 @ 9:35 pm
wow its amazing how closed minded some of the windows users are in this world. I just want to say 1 thing, that a majority of the people that have left a comment to this post are just plain idiotic with the exception of owen
I think that those of you who think that these allegations about linux are false, should actually try and find out because i haven’t seen anything in these comments that is untrue about linux. in fact the whole 20 minute install is actually stretching it because i have installed distros in a matter of a few minutes that run perfectly fine and well without anything being done with them.
Comment by Kaleb — July 2, 2008 @ 9:36 pm
I like linux, but i find it Unusable. and I don’t even play PC games. The problem with linux is that…well you get what you pay for. There is a linux replacement for a lot of windows software (and a few goodies you can’t find in windows). Pidgin, Open Office, VLC, Banshee to name some. And i just love how you can customize your desktop the way you want it (AWN and Compiz Fusion comes to my mind).
BUT 90% of it is buggy or in beta stage and it seems to stay like that for a long long time. Open source means that there is little dedicated software development. (free in other words) I don’t mind paying for software that is not crashing all the time. Most software developers and device providers don’t write linux stuff. Even Apple who made their millions from a heavily modified Linux distro doesnt support linux (they treat it like a plague).
I use vista. I used XP for a long time and now I use vista. it’s not perfect but i can safely say that it has not crashed from the day I installed it.
This guy sounds like he has an old computer (hence the drivers that don’t install themselves) and so linux might be a good choice for him
but in the end, the moral of the story is that I go where the software is. And right now its in Windows or in a Mac. And until software developers get the money they deserve for writing software for linux, it’s going to stay this way. Linux is for corporate use, (and people who just use office and browse the internet and old computers). Because the software I use day to day is 10 years behind in linux, Vista will be the default operating system to load in Grub.
By the way, i’m not computer expert (it takes a lot be in that position) but I do use comptuers a lot, and my job is to help people with computer problems (i work in an IT department) and this is my synopsis of the situation. The fact that you can’t find your drivers speaks about your computer knowledge.
PS: OpenOffice is downloadable for Windows.
Comment by stoopid — July 2, 2008 @ 9:36 pm
just wanted to make this quick regarding to my previous comment, i did not mean the bad things like this 8GB install that this person says he has because a typical install of linux is MAYBE around 1 at the most
Comment by Kaleb — July 2, 2008 @ 9:39 pm
Sorry for my bad grammar this is to mock aaaaaaab.
… I didn’t bash windows
I said nothing but good things about it.
Windows is Garbage. My Linux install at one point was 2GB did everything I needed it to do. 8GB of BS is nothing compared to a stock vista install from HP. No games? Really? If I need to play games and waste time I guess I could also run Windows for that. But seriously there are plenty of games that run if you know how to do it.
Your right its good to bash Windows and say how OPEN Linux is. I didn’t pay for Windows you’re right. I built my own computer, and didn’t pay for a Windows license. Nor did any one pay Mr. Gates on my behalf.
Did I mention games? How about just doing anything productive?
Do you use the web at all? Do you know how many websites are powered by Linux? Do you know that people have to support those web servers…. That seems pretty productive to me.
Comment by Owen — July 2, 2008 @ 9:43 pm
if there were games for linux like they have for windows i would be using linux tomarrow
Comment by mk — July 2, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
The comment my above is mocking is #35.
Comment by Owen — July 2, 2008 @ 9:45 pm
@mk you’re right there, maybe you should get a mac. Or consider learning Linux and having a dual boot for Windows gaming.
Comment by Owen — July 2, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
“(yes, office takes about as long to install as your whole operating system, but office is more powerful than your OS, so its O.K)”
This statement sums it up completely for me. I’ve tried, really tried, to use Open Office on Ubuntu, and even iWork and MS Office on the Mac, but I’ve found that Office in Windows is just the best that fits my needs. Honestly, this is the only reason I use Windows and the only reason I have always come back after I’ve switched. Yes, I know Open Office is free and that iWork is awesome, but awesome doesn’t cut it. I need something that actually helps me get some work done, which Excel does powerfully.
Having said that, I think Windows is the worst possible operating system in the world. But if you have enough hardware (you know, something that Sony would sell for $800 in Circuit City), you’re not gonna have significant problems (other than uninstalling all that crapware that comes bundled).
I bought a “Windows Vista Capable” machine in 2006, and after I installed Vista Home Premium, everything worked perfectly, instantly. Of course, the computer slowed, so I overclocked it and now it turns off every now and then when I forget to turn on the A/C. Other than that, this machine is all I really need to do everything I want, from gaming to watching movies, working, and even calendar.
Ah, by the way, Windows DOES HAVE Windows Calendar and Windows Mail out of the box. Yes, they suck, but only as much as Mozilla Thunderbird or Sunbird. Calendar, by the way, is actually pretty good. The design may be ugly, but I actually manage my Google Calendar right from my computer without having to install Outlook or go to the Google website (this allows me to sync my calendar wirelessly to my iPhone). It has the same functionality as iCal, without the eye candy.
Basically a $150 install of MS Office Home and Student (which can be split three ways because it comes with three licenses) and you’re good to go. You install Outlook because you want to. You don’t really need it (unless you work for someone who has an Exchange server as corporate email, in which case, your employer is paying the license, not you).
So, Kubuntu comes with 5 browsers pre-installed, while Mac comes with Safari. Windows comes with Explorer. So, all options suck and all options require that you know that Firefox is the way to go to make the right choice. Oh, yes, there is a version of Safari for Windows, just in case you like the eye candy, but if you are a Mac-owning massochist, then you’re out of luck because there is no longer a version of Explorer for Mac.
Windows is the only platform that allows you to run pretty much any program with a native version for it. You need ports to play games in Linux (good games, anyway, those that don’t require 5 hours of configs to run as they should, or those that don’t have a penguin as main character. Seriously, penguin lemmings is ok, but a penguin shooter? That’s just to much. What’s next? A penguin running at full speed and biting random people, infecting them with deadly penguinitis? Please!), and you need a VM to run most software on a Mac… Well, that is no longer 100% true, but it is if you want to use the real version of Microsoft Office, which I DO. It is also true for a lot of games.
Windows doesn’t have multiple desktops, but a visit to this site fixes that: http://www.codeplex.com/vdm
So, yes, I agree that Windows is the worst option out there, but not by much… not really. And since it is the only one that can natively run Office for Windows, which I require for getting real work done, then, that’s the one I use.
Incidentally, Yesterday my dad came home with his brand new $800 Sony Vaio with Windows Home Premium pre-installed, duo chipset and 3 gbs in RAM. I said, “I can turn off UAC for you and make your computer run faster by uninstalling crapware and actually fixing Windows”. He said to me, “I actually like it the way it is. I don’t know much about technology and I like it that the computer asks me many times if I am sure I want to do something. I make a lot of mistakes and this helps me prevent them”. He’s 55 and he was the national manager of a leading IT distributor in Mexico… He actually refused Firefox. His bank only accepts visitors using Explorer… So, maybe Windows is not so bad, its just that we are not the demographic for it?
Comment by Hari Seldon — July 2, 2008 @ 9:47 pm
I use office 2007 on Linux with Citrix.
Although I don’t get to use it as much as I’d like to because exchange is always down. Office is stable as a rock, but you know exchange. Always having to give it a kick in the teeth to get it to work. Its funny because my Linux based mail servers under more loan havn’t been rebooted since the last kernel update.
Hands down office is better than OpenOffice but the price is right
Comment by Owen — July 2, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
i know nobody wants to listen to this.. but this is the truth in thrid world countries. We (most of us) use Windows because we don’t it. None of the software we (again, most of us)install are bought. Piracy made it all opensource.
that’s just how it is. i’m not sayin u shud do it yourself!
Comment by sic.sick6 — July 2, 2008 @ 9:54 pm
Linux is great, but you’re oversimplifying the problem. First of all, does your computer have new hardware? If so, it probably won’t work well in Linux. Oh, you have an nVidia or ATI graphics card? Well, you’ll have to jump through hoops to get the proper drivers installed, and unless you know how to boot the installer in VESA mode, you might be up a creek with certain cards (my 6600GT is a great example of this). You want to use a wireless card? Good luck if you want to use WPA (though I must admit that the connectivity application in Fedora 9 is the best one I’ve encountered).
Want to play DVD’s? Well, technically it’s illegal, but I’m sure you can find libdvdcss somewhere. Did I mention that spreadsheets don’t load convert quite right to OpenOffice?
Linux is great; package management makes Windows look like a disorganized child, and the amount of free software is astounding and the amount of power that the user has over the OS, instead of the other way around, is tremendous. But don’t pretend it’s as easy as you say because it’s not.
Comment by Ross — July 2, 2008 @ 9:57 pm
The obvious solution is Mac OS X.
Apple fanboys unite! :p
Comment by Tony — July 2, 2008 @ 9:58 pm
Linux is not for everyone, simply put, it takes time and work, but the payoff off of a lean, infinitely stable and extremely fast system is a sight to behold after being forced into buggy bloatware.
Drivers are issues in either case so long as the manufacturers of the hardware refuse to support them. At least with the linux community, even with a basic level of support, drivers will eventually appear and improve, so it’s not fully reliant on manufacturers ignorance or short sighted greed.
I admitt I haven’t used linux in a long time because XP has introduced a level of required stability that made it usable, and it has the most software I use on a daily basis that makes it useful to me. I intend on getting back into Linux very soon though.
I’m taken aback by the level of ignorance found all over the net, windows users actually bashing linux? Please….. short sighted are you! XP left DOS behind, not Vista. Vista may be ground up again but it was uncalled for, and it seems they failed in their design incentives. I don’t consider “extra security” as more “are you sure… are you really really really sure?” pop ups and warning bells. I don’t appreciate an operating system that expects it’s users to be fools, and in fact counts on it, and in fact ensures they remain that way.
You may scoff at the command line because you’re too lazy to figure it out, but it is ultimately powerful and there’s nothing that can’t be done with it, if you just take the time. All the documentation needed is right at your fingertips. This is how it differs.
Where do you turn in windows when the desktop fails you? What’s that command that makes it all ok again…. FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/F:size] [/B | /S] [/C] FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors] [/B
Seriously, you guys advocating “if you buy it from the shop all set up for you” need not be commenting. You’re what’s wrong. Sure you don’t need to format, next time you see a blue screen, go buy another pre configured computer. Odds are, you’ll need it for the next windows update anyway, right.
++Debian, by the user, for the user.
Cheers
Comment by chrisr — July 2, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
@ Owen, comment 39
Why are you insulting gaming for no reason and belittling it so much. Computer games are a multi-billion dollar industry and is nothing to look down on. You keep mentioning “doing something productive.” So you mean to tell me you never do any thing that isn’t productive? You never just relax and have a good time, you never read fiction, you never go dancing, you never take trips to the beach or a swimming pool? While arguments can be made that some of these things also have added benefits of physical activity, that doesn’t really make them any more productive than playing games. What I am trying to say is that there was no need to put down his valid argument that Linux is not always compatible with mainstream software, especially software such as games. Yes, there are work arounds, but for your average user, these are not acceptable.
Yes Linux has its advantages, but it still has along way to go before it will appeal to the average user. Even Ubuntu which has made strides in this area isn’t close. Linux users talk about how easy it is to transition, but if at any point it requires you to use a command line interface, it will not be acceptable for the average user. The average user LIKES those wizards many power users despise. I’ll admit, I don’t like them either, and prefer to do it manually most of the time as its quicker. But its only quicker because i have over time learned to do these things and made an effort to do so. From time to time, in talking with people, i realize how much i take for granted the information i have accumulated over the years on computer use. While its easy to say “its not the hard to learn” or “if people took the time to learn”, the truth is most wont take the time, and its really is unreasonably to expect them to when its not something of interest to them. Things should be intuitive and if they are not, the OS or software SHOULD guide them through it. Its easy to get cought up in what you think is common knowledge as a power user or IT professional, that truly isn’t common knowledge.
Windows is designed for the true average user and below. Its all well and good that corporate grade systems run on Linux/Unix all the time, but those are being supported by people with training and specialization, not laymen that use their computers to write e-mails, a few reports, and surf the web.
Comment by mike — July 2, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
Well I guess this was written by Bill Gates.
And…
That Linux Haters was written by Steve Ballmer!
Comment by TCD — July 2, 2008 @ 10:36 pm
well I’m a linux user and it’s true how with linux you can have, in some cases, a productive enviroment ready to go with just using the installation CD. Tho, I believe that if M$ added office for free in their OSes, the software industry would go crazy with monopoly arguments against M$. This has already happened with IE and WMP.
Comment by jitsu — July 2, 2008 @ 11:06 pm
what a naive bunch you are…
linux is in fact just a kernel. nothing more. and nothing less.
fedora (just as an example) is a distribution that has linux kernel and various applications.
windows is an OS. with some apps. it is not a distribution with 3000 apps noone really cares about or needs (do you need modem dialer? really? and an average joe also? with his cable internet?)
same with OS X. OS + some basic apps. not a bundle. just _some_ apps.
fact that you get 3000 apps on the same CD with basic OS, does not make the OS better. If Windows came with supplementary CD that had GIMP/OpenOffice/etc/etc/etc/etc in it would that make you feel better?
Comment by pro — July 2, 2008 @ 11:30 pm
[...] A bare minimum operating system with nothing but MS Paint and Media Player. tommy lee jones batmanread more | digg [...]
Pingback by Prime News Blog » Blog Archive » tits batman Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater) — July 2, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
or jsut buy a mac
Comment by novak — July 3, 2008 @ 12:23 am
It is for exactly for these reasons that I only run windows in vmware on linux now. i.e. have a pristine patched windows, clone it, and work on that (that’s if I ever need to use windows). http://www.klausharris.de/the_best_os_is.php
Comment by Klaus — July 3, 2008 @ 12:33 am
You disqualify yourself in an instant, windows has no 15gb default install. more like 1.5gb…
Comment by dindong — July 3, 2008 @ 12:56 am
Linux takes 20 minutes to install? Which distribution is that? It typically takes me 1+ hours to install Fedora. After that, I still use Windows to do productive things. Gimp is not as a good as Photoshop, OpenOffice is not as good as MS Office, and there are many other applications which are better than the Linux equivalents.
People don’t use computers to run operating systems, they use them to run applications. The reason why Windows has a greater market share is that it has better, more productive applications than Linux.
Comment by Johan Cyprich — July 3, 2008 @ 1:12 am
@shek
you took the words right out of my mouth,”the virus scanners made for linux scan for WINDOWS viruses”
I use both xp and linux (ubuntu 8.04), xp to play games, use adobe Flash and Illustrator. Linux i use just to listen to music, browse the net and sync my phone. Ubuntu runs a faster and uses less resources than XP (but that could be cause i have many items on my startup like norton, winamp etc etc). Linux is improving with each release, and if only linux would support programms like Flash and Illustrator without WINE, (WINE does not work for me) i would switch to linux completely.
Windows, MAC or Linux the choice is dictated by what you want to accomplish with relative ease. Hence the reason why we all have our own options, there is no reason to fight a deathmatch over with OS is the best.
Comment by PeterPac Good at his job NOT !!! — July 3, 2008 @ 1:12 am
Dude cant believe you managed to get your own geeky brain to believe all the stuff you wrote! Wont be giving any personal opinions, but just try and point out some variations from the reality in your article.
* So you are saying that all you get for spending 300$ is MS Paint and Media Player? Your version of Ultimate probably did not ship with Media Center, Photo Gallery, Calendar, Movie Maker, DVD Maker, a collaboration tool (meeting space), a Fax and Scan tool, an Antispyware, a Mailing application, one of the best browsers n bla bla bla..
these are just a handful tools you get which most of the users would be using..
Care to explain from what view is it bare minimum?
* Wov man, are you browsing on the 56kbps dialup connection still that it takes you 2 hours to download a few drivers? BTW, din’t you get the driver cd’s from your manufacturers?
* Well being the genius i am, i would have either typed “Device” in the start menu, or i would have made an attempt to open the Hardware section in the start menu, makes more sense, doesn’t it?
* Instead of doing all the geek work you did to find the devices, you had so many different option to instal the drivers easily. You could have placed all the drivers in one folder and directed the driver installation wizard to search that folder for drivers.
* What you should have done first of all was open up Windows Update and searched for the drivers. All your unknown devices would have been ready for use after a simple check for updates and installation.
* If you dont really like MS Paint, you could install Paint.Net in 5 mins, without a reboot
* Dude, have you even used Windows Vista? No Calendaring program? Next time you sit on some Vista computer, just type “Cal” in the start meny and see what shows up..
No wonder the software industry is booming, they have people like you, a calendar for 300$, cant beat that one!
* 30 minutes to install office, what processor you using? 286? It is not more than a 15 minutes installation at max!!
* Did you really mean it when you said Movie Maker isn’t going to be the easiest thing to locate? Its right there on the start menu, you dont even have to click on the All Programs link, its a “in your face” shortcut!
That Bill Gates mail was from 2003! Gosh man, cant believe you managed to slip all this crap through..It was on a completely different OS and a different scenario!
* Open Windows Media Player, and see if you can locate a Tab named “Burn” on that black colored bar..
* Minesweep or Solitaire? If you have Ultimate, you will have 8 other games to entertain your children, guess you must have missed them like everything else.
Comment by Alsiladka — July 3, 2008 @ 1:30 am
What planet do you live on?
I installed Ultimate *64 BIT* edition on a new build PC last October, using mid-range parts.
First of all, Vista Ultimate 64 cost me 90 of my quaint English Pounds for the OEM version, which roughly equates to 180 of your greenbacks, and as everything in blighty costs more than it does in the US, I’d say paying $300 for Vista Ultimate 64 is stupid.
Second - installing Vista - 45 minutes? were you installing on a 386? Took me less than 1/2 an hour (core 2 duo 1.8 GHz and 2Gig ram).
Third - drivers - my experience of this is that Vista 64 (the 64 bit edition!!!) came with all the drivers required for my mid-range hardware, and supported my very old inkjet and scanner.
Vista keeps getting a bad press, but in my office (a web development environment) we have about 1/3rd deployment of Vista Business (upgrades, not suppied installed) and amongst the geeks (of which I am one), 9 of 11 geeks have installed Vista on their home machines across an extremely wide variety of hardware, no-one has suffered drivers issues, blue screens, file copy issues or anything else that has, apparantly, blighted the release of Vista.
Get real
Comment by Adrian — July 3, 2008 @ 2:17 am
I like vista, and I prefer to XP, but every time I turn on my machine, I have a chance of any combination of these not working: explorer.exe, wireless network, sound, the window manager, and if the first and last aren’t working then shutdown.exe doesn’t work. And this is vista laptop, ie. it came with vista, and whenever I contact HP their suggestion is just to format my computer, and now I keep having to use XP on virtual PC, but I’ve got a dual boot with ubuntu and frankly, I can’t see a reason to go over. Too many programs don’t work/exist on it.
@ 23 - Sam Is having linux not install any drivers by default good? Why make so complex?
Comment by Ray — July 3, 2008 @ 2:57 am
what a load of garbage. take issues of previous versions of windows, mixed with some old other crap (Gates MM memo was several years old, dealt with Windows XP Professional as MM was installed on Home and originaly not available for pro), and then a feature for vendor openess and twist it into a negative.
Start with NEW PC…that means OEM version so your pricing is wrong.
Nothing but MSPaint…since you included vista lets see what’s in vista the games (more than minesweeper and solitare), notepad, wordpad, sound recorder, windows media player, calculator, Windows Photo Gallery (cropping, resizing, red eye removal), paint, web browser, an email client, and your favorite MSPaint. Things like burning basic music/data CD’s can be handled without additional software since Windows XP. Seems like a pretty functional system for a noob to get some things accomplished, albeit basic but wait that’s what the OS is for. Packaging 3rd party apps that may not even be used or the prefered solution for the user…but I suppose you prefer a bloated crapware type of OS install if that’s the case Dell can help you they seen to specialize in usless annoying apps. I’m just talking about Vista Business here, other flavors have more.
Whining about drivers, most basic hardware can function to a point with included Windows drivers. But to blame Microsoft for crappy vendor driver installs/readmes is just stupid. For the most part if you don’t have a driver it’s pretty obvious what’s missing generic Ethernet Adapter, Graphics Adapter, Multimedia device all pop up. Since XP 99.9% of the Unknown Devices that are on a new install is simply the mother board Inf drivers (but by the state of your post you’ve probably never looked at a manual that sais “INSTALL THIS RIGHT AFTER WINDOWS” in big letters. Instead you’d live with a yellow bang scratching your head going to some website and wondering why performance is suffering and blaming windows instead of your own lack of comprehension.
You aren’t required to use MS Office, if you don’t need those specific features OpenOffice.org is there, Gimp instead of Photoshop etc. Oh wait you think someone should be making those choices for you? Or perhaps it’s supposed to be a bonus to waste hard drive space/install time on something you don’t need. See there are Operating Systems and there are Applications but you’d just like to merge them as one for your side and call it a feature of the OS. What you describe of the linux distros you are using in precisely the reason so many PC users hated macs, you can get something accomplished with either but some of us have the knowledge and the will to help determine how it’s done.
I can match or beat your 20 minute install with a pre created image of the OS and all apps I want. Which is esentially what’s happening you are using a distro and it’s assorted toys already compiled for you with all your favorite whatevers and calling it an install. Do the work yourself and see what your 20 minutes turns into.
Plenty of real points to argue on one OS against another, but this is probably the most innacurate over exagerted and time shifted garbage I’ve seen in a while. You sound like an OS zealot with no experience outside of what you manage to scrape off of some windowssux forums and dug back 3+ years to compile it and miss the target of the complaint completely. Good Work
Comment by Injury — July 3, 2008 @ 3:12 am
@3: I think the comment about having to look up things in google was not meant as a resource to solve problems, hell everyone uses google for that. The difference is, tha even to install the free programs like open office, vlc, gimp whatever, you have to search them in google, find them and then install them as opposed to a simple simply typing apt get or whatever in linux.
Comment by Philip — July 3, 2008 @ 3:42 am
Actually as a mac and linux user that never uses windows unless I absolutely have to to get something done, I think really this is a very porrly written article that incorrectly shows windows shortfallings, and in fact sadly only shows the lack of insight of the author. You’ve spent a little too much time in linux to realise that you’ve in fact made using windows hard for yourself.
I’ve rarely ever seen anybody look up their pci id on a website to get a driver installed. Rather, if they dont have the driver disk, they’d go to the laptop/motherboard/whatever website and look there or google for their driver. But that aside, the whole article could have been done a lot better and demonstrated in a million more ways how windows can be frustrating and inferior.
Comment by propagandhi — July 3, 2008 @ 4:17 am
[...] Ha!. Mais aqui. [...]
Pingback by Resposta ao Linux Hater: Windows Hater « Blog do Tomas — July 3, 2008 @ 4:38 am
You are a Crybaby..U just decided u had to throw some tantrums, and viola!! Everyone gets this article…
There are bad things in vista, But u didnt even research them..Instead, Your dimwitted mind came up with such silly arguments..
The reason MS doesnt bundle all those apps is cause of the antitrust litigations in various countries against Microsoft, Whereas with your friendly neighbourhood linux distro, no one gives a damn..
************my point is that after a simple 20 minute install of any popular Linux distribution I can do all of the things I’ve listed above. They come with the majority of hardware supported out of the box, an office suite (open office, abiword, gnumeric, evolution, etc), multiple graphic tools (gimp, inkscape), easy package manager that handles updates without multiple reboots (rpm, yum, yast, zypper, apt-get, package kit), video recording program (cheese), cd burner (Brasero, Wodim), lots of fun games, and the ability to balance your checkbook with GNU Cash.*****************
Yeah then spend a month trying to figure out how to install them, then another month getting used to them..
Hardware support?? Right…Seems like u didnt hav ur fix today..
Comment by Partymonger — July 3, 2008 @ 5:06 am
This article is the biggest load of crap. I have used both Windows and Linux extensively and let me tell you that it is Linux that is impossible to use out of the box. After you’re done with your install and you figure out how to configure grub properly then you realize that you cant get on the internet because Linux didn’t recognize your wireless NIC. After you finally figure out how to get the internet up (if you make it that far) maybe you would go to Youtube to watch a funny video only to realize your sound card wasn’t detected. Then, when you try to install any piece of software, you realize that you can’t install it because it is missing dependencies. So you start downloading and installing those dependencies but wait, those dependencies are missing dependencies. That’s just great. Im not saying windows is the greatest but it does work out of the box much better than any Linux distro.
Comment by nullaesthetics — July 3, 2008 @ 5:23 am
I don’t think I have ever had a problem with Vista. I bought it the day it came out through Tiger Direct, where you can find Home Premium ,today, for only $134 (CAD), not $300. And this is not an upgrade, it’s the full version. When I first brought it home, I put it in my DVD-ROM and started the setup. In exactly 1 hour I came to see how my computer was doing and guess what - Vista was installed along with all the required drivers. So what’s up? If you think that’s never happened, guess again - my friend bought Vista a few weeks after me and experienced the same installation ease. I have not had a single problem with Vista since it first came out. As for Office, it took me 5 minutes from the time I put in the DVD in my DVD-ROM to the time I started Word to work on a report - 5 minutes. How much did I spend on the Office? Around $190 (CAD) with 3 licenses.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Linux. I bought an eee pc when it first came out and I absolutely love it. I run Linux on an old server in my basement and I love the fact that I can run applications I need on older systems without a problem.
Vista should not be run on older or entry level systems. The system I use with Vista is pretty high end. I remember that it took me exactly 6 minutes to install XP a couple of months before I got Vista. If you complain that Vista cannot find your drivers and takes a long time to install then I say that you are incapable of building a proper system or should not use Vista and complain about it. Maybe next time when you write an article like this you should include your specs for us all to judge.
Comment by piccolos — July 3, 2008 @ 5:25 am
I don’t use windows at home, but your case is inaccurate.
1)Movie Maker is easily found in the start menu
2)Bill Gates had a hard time finding it to DOWNLOAD FROM THE WEBSITE. Not trouble finding it on his computer.
3)Most Windows users have it pre-installed on their comps. Your “experience” is not typical.
I like Linux, but you’re not helping it by making false claims that even a non-Windows user can point out.
Comment by Jack — July 3, 2008 @ 5:33 am
[...] minimum operating system with nothing but MS Paint and Media Player. wonder woman fanfiction, valkeread more | digg [...]
Pingback by Fat Mobil Content » wonder woman getting dressed Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater) — July 3, 2008 @ 5:52 am
You guys must be retarded, i can format a computer, insall windows, get all burning software / divx / nero / office etc on in around an hour. 7 hours?!!!
Comment by SirShibby — July 3, 2008 @ 6:41 am
Okay, this was just silly. Before I dive in, let me say that I am a serious hater of Vista. That being said, you are way off the mark.
1) Most versions of Vista a home or business user is likely to buy/install or use has more than Paint installed. It comes with video and image editing, media player and management, web browsing, calendar, email, and even a couple of VERY basic text editing programs… to name a few.
2) If you ran through that many steps to install drivers you are, as has been pointed out repeatedly, retarded. While they are not structured in terms of location and placement on the web at vendor sites, many do indeed install for you and not just extract, and if you bothered to read the ones extracting only clearly say so. Also, Vista gets much of the hardware out there unless it’s very old (in which case you wouldn’t be installing it since everyone by now knows it won’t run well on it) or very new (in which case you should know better most likely or it already came with Vista and a base driver is streamlined into your restore disc).
3) The concept that ANY linux distro supports as much if not more hardware out of the box than Vista or XP is simply laughable. The best distros don’t come close, while most are simply uninstallable on the latest hardware and remain so for years at a time in some cases.
4) The central repository, cataloging, and retrieveal of many open source apps is a nice feature, no doubt. Unfortunatley much of the open source apps are pure garbage which are both badly written and documented/supported… and there are simply gaping and massive holes in the library when compared to what is on the shelf for PCs running windows variants. In fact, if you fall outside of a four or five key niche areas of software you won’t find shiat worth installing, and for what you can run it’s often a poor user experience resultant form a crap GUI, poorly documented and unintuitive features, and massive incompatibilities iwth the other 90+% of the computing world.
I could go on and on like this for DAYs… face it, *nix is best in the server room or on a IT person’s desk, not with grandma at home. Until the application pool widens and focuses down, until ‘open source’ comes with good manuals and support, until hardware vendors willingly write solid drivers, until the number of distros is cut down dramatically and thus dillution fo the brand/market is stopped, until complete fracktard basement dwelling hard core geeks are taken out of the leadership roles for development linux at home and on the workplace desktop will never be a reality. It’s mostly the communities’ fault too, because honeslty there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel, but too many dorks and poor thinkers stand in the way, as evident by this blog and other more popular sites and communites like /. and the rest.
Comment by RealPCUser — July 3, 2008 @ 8:00 am
Some ppl you lead by the hand, and some you lead by the nose. window users are led by the nose.
Comment by _xISO — July 3, 2008 @ 8:22 am
The author deliberately went out of their way to make it seem like installing and using Windows is anything but easy. Pffft. Yeah, ’cause linux “just works” right? LOLZ.
Comment by Wayne — July 3, 2008 @ 8:57 am
hahahahahaha - John, are you outta your mind..was this article written solely with the intent of getting back at the guy who wrote the “hating linux” blog? Or did you mean to convey any factual evidence of Linux being better than Windows - cause i dont see this happening anywhere in the article..
Being a power user, i have a triple booting laptop with XP, Vista Ultimate and Ubuntu 8.04 and love all of them. Your talk of installation time, driver issues, software not present are ALL completely inaccurate. Infact over the last year, i have observed that I have faced MORE issues with ubuntu than with XP or Vista. Infact I tried convincing a friend of mine who had a new HP laptop with Atheros wireless and nvidia graphics - ubuntu installed with no hitches - but the wireless wont work - cant increase screen resolution etc etc. whereas Vista dual booting did NOT have a SINGLE issue.
Blue screens - I have not encountered a single BSOD from the last 6 years + (in my memory).. so please dont use that argument anyone.
When ubuntu installs its upgrades, it requires a lot more monitoring that a typical windows upgrade - ubuntu needs to know if i want to preserve the old config file, write a new one etc etc - how the hell are my parents expected to know what a config file is (if at all i decide to install ubuntu for them)?…
All in all - as many have pointed out earlier - if you are a power user, any of these OS’es will do - if a layman - there is no way ubuntu (any distro) is close to being mainstream.
Comment by TheOrion — July 3, 2008 @ 9:04 am
oh and i forgot - i installed kubuntu as my fourth os a week back - and OMG - that one just sucks all the way to high heaven - the names are very different, you need to go to different places to access the same information - not intuitive at all…looks great - lot of screen flip flap - but other than that - not for full time use:(
Comment by TheOrion — July 3, 2008 @ 9:09 am
Retarded. Let me introduce you to the real world: You buy a PC from Dell with Windows installed and all of the drivers installed already. You don’t download drivers, you don’t dick around with installing your operating system. You just turn it on and start doing stuff and installing apps that you actually care about. This is a retarded example of how Linux users don’t really know how to use computers anymore.
Comment by Duh — July 3, 2008 @ 9:40 am
I think there’s a very important point here: if microsoft would include a lot of programs in windows, I think you would be the first to join the crowd saying that microsoft gives you no choice, and forces their products on you. Remember the misery with Internet Explorer being built in?
Comment by Be Fair Please — July 3, 2008 @ 10:57 am
[...] system with nothing but MS Paint and Media Player. harry potter erotic fan fiction hermioneread more | digg [...]
Pingback by SearchRoads » harry potter doll maker Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater) — July 3, 2008 @ 11:23 am
Ok, I liked this, but I think you need to do more. MORE. Given that roughly 75% of the comments have been picking flaws at your post - stating how inaccurate the numbers your giving are, saying how stupid you are not to be buying a (overpriced) Dell computer that comes with all the drivers, again how inaccurate your experience is, more people bitching about how much you suck at not being able to do the simplest of tasks (such as installing a driver), and how you are a crybaby.
I really think you need to do more to address these. Obviously not all of them (i mean, you can’t do much about being a crybaby, can you?), but lots of these misconceptions about how “Oh, using windows is easy you dummy! I’m an 8th level compu-haknut, why are you having much problems?” would be good to be addressed.
Again, I commend you for your post, and shake my head at almost 77 people who have little clue about usability heuristics…
Comment by Appreciative — July 3, 2008 @ 11:49 am
hmmm, i never had any of those problem you describe, maybe it is the dumb user that dont know nothing having all the problems and if they have that windows with windows what makes you think linsux would be better since it is not user friendly at all.
Comment by aballsack — July 3, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
and the lesson learned: buy a mac. /m\(*.*)/m\
Comment by gorkha — July 3, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
This is stupid. I’m by no means a windows defender, but honestly I’ve never had so much trouble installing drivers and coming bundled with a billion extraneous programs is exactly what an os should NOT do. The most valid points were the infinite reboots on windows update and the obesity of office (but you LIKE having every possible util under the sun by default, don’t you?)
Comment by Anonymous — July 3, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
For all the faults and imperfections of the two operating systems, they are both good or bad. I use both XP and Ubuntu but on separate machines and like them both. Fans of each spread so much bull about the other that it is not worth the paper it is written on. Which ever one you like is the right one for you. If you don’t like the other then don’t use it. Simple.
The fact that over 90% of users choose a PC over a Mac shows what is the better option regardless of which OS you are using. If Macs were that good then the fiqures would reflect it and I have seen the figures that suggest that something like 60% of computers sold for more than $1,000 are Macs just proves how overpriced they are and how you can get so much more for less by using Windows or Linux.
Comment by John L — July 3, 2008 @ 3:34 pm
I’ve been installing Windows on computers since Win95, have built 7 computers from scratch, and repaired countless others for friends. I have 3 running at home, 2 of them dual booting linux, one with Ubuntu the other PCLinuxOS. I’ve tried over 30 distros across 5 or six different machines, and can honestly say I have had more trouble setting up a machine with linux than windows. Some distro’s install flawlessly on one machine and refuse to on others. I gave up trying to configure MythTV on my home built dual monitor primary machine with a Hauppauge PVR150, a very common card. I crashed the desktop more than once making simple changes to the resolution on my dual monitors, needing to use another computer to Google how to fix the xorg file, etc. Yet I can get anything and everything to work within windows, without exception. I know I’m a relative Linux “newbie”, and maybe someone else can get MythTV to work on that particular computer, but the fact remains that I am experienced and yet still struggle. Linux may not have a virus issue, but it can certainly get buggy after an update. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE MY UBUNTU, and do enjoy tinkering with it, but it’s not a Windows killer yet, not by a long shot.
Comment by John — July 3, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
[...] operating system with nothing but MS Paint and Media Player. X Men the tv show characters biosread more | digg story RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI Cartoons Fans Lounge [...]
Pingback by Cartoons Fans Lounge — July 3, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
[...] recently read this article, posted on Digg.com, and really just want to post my own experience in this exact situation… [...]
Pingback by Philoking.com » Blog Archive » The Vista Badmouthing Turns to Pure Lies…. — July 3, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
Momma said don’t lie bro..
http://www.philoking.com/2008/07/03/the-vista-badmouthing-turns-to-pure-lies/
JB
Comment by Jason Burns — July 3, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
[...] A bare minimum operating system with nothing but MS Paint and Media Player. teen titans raven pornread more | digg [...]
Pingback by Cartoons Plugin » Blog Archive » teen titans theme song Windows Hater (in response to Linux Hater) — July 3, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
So are you actually lying just to drum up ad impressions, or are you so ignorant of what you’re talking about you’re just making things up?
This blog of yours really highlights either your ability to lie/make things up, or not have a clue what you’re talking about.
Lets go through the factual inaccuracies:
1. Vista Ultimate doesnt cost anyone $300. It’s a $150 premium over Vista Home Basic from Dell or HP.
2. The OEM you bought it from includes a driver disk, plus they’re pre-installed on the PC.
If you’re talking about building your own machine, which only a tiny fraction of people do, then you already KNOW what hardware you put in, so you dont have to go hunting. Suggesting otherwise is just purposefuly being deceitful.
3. Every major hardware provider makes drivers very easy to install. Both Nvidia and ATI have full-fledged and automated installers. Ditto for intel and broadcom network hardware. Ditto for all the major audio hardware.
Describing it the way you did is called hyperbole, it means lying to make it sound worse than it is.
The way you describe is possibly the most idiotic way you could approach the problem. Plus its taking a very technical approach, so its not relevant to non-technical ‘mom and pop’ users. So congratulations for describing a technical but boneheaded process that not one person in 10,000 would come up with.
3. There are not 230 updates. I think you’re confusing pre-SP2 XP with Vista. This clearly makes you completely unqualified to be speaking about technical issues.
Lets browse to MS security advisory site.
If you bought a machine that shipped with Vista SP1, then you have a grand whopping total of 7 updates. With Vista RTM, you have 28.
Lets say you even double it, for non-core-os components, you’re still not within a factor of 5 of the nonsense number you made up.
4. Again, when talking about MS Paint, you show a gross level of ignorance of the product you’re supposedly being an expert on.
Vista includes Windows Photo Gallery, which offers built in: tagging, naming, grouping, and simple but common photo editing features such as:
Brightness, Contrast, Color Temperature, Tint, Saturation, Crop, Resize, Rotate, and Red Eye fix. If you need to go beyond that, like mark it up or add text to it, paint is minimally adequate.
If you need more than that, a nice piece of software from some MS employees named Paint.NET is available, free, and open-source.
5. Next you mention no default calendaring program in Windows Vista. Again you show off an appalling amount of ignorance.
If you go look in the Start menu, right at the top of the list, before the program folders, is ‘Windows Calendar’.
It’s built in, works well, and integrates with the Windows Mail.
You really need to try to have a clue what you’re talking about before opening your mouth.
6. Next you mention Movie Maker and quote a Bill Gates leaked memo.
This again shows off an appalling amount of ignorance, or willingness to outright lie to the people who read your blog.
The leaked memo you referred to was about downloading and installing Movie Maker on XP.
I’ll share some super secret news with you, Movie Maker is included in Vista by default.
And you know what, its really hard to find too. It’s in the start menu, right next to Windows Calendar, Windows Mail, and Windows Photo Gallery.
I know its hard for you to read things from a list and comprehend content from that, but you need to try.
7. You also mention that you cant watch DVDs or burn CD’s with Vista.
Your ability to grossly be ignorant again astounds us.
Surprise, surprise, both of these things are built into windows.
DVD playing doesnt come with all versions of Vista, but it does come with Ultimate and some others.
In addition, burning CDs is trivial, and has been part of the OS since day 1 of XP.
8. You mention you cant sync with your phone/pda, but again you speak of things that you know nothing about.
Windows Mobile Device Center is what does this, and is part of Vista.
9. You mention that it only comes with two games, yet I see 9 games built in:
Chess Titans, FreeCell, Hearts, Inkball, Mahjong Titans, Minesweeper, Purble Place, Solitaire, Spider Solitaire.
Please make some vague attempt to know what you are talking about before opening your mouth.
…
In short, you dont seem to have even half a clue of anything you’re talking about.
Nearly every point in your blog was based on completely inaccurate information, that you could have spend 2 minutes finding out for yourself.
You really need to learn to keep your mouth shut and not act like a know-it-all, especially when its so obvious you know absolutely nothing.
Kindly make an attempt to get educated before your next blog.
Comment by Andrew — July 3, 2008 @ 8:14 pm
Its posts like these which just show how retarded you and all you bunch of linux using loonies are. I doubt you ever really installed Windows. Even if you did , it must have been Windows 1.0. Apart from earning a few brownie points among your loser bunch of linux using retards, this is just one of those “Hey look, its my i hate windows rant, now i’m a real uber linux using, windows bashing, umpteen config file fiddling noob”
Linux never was and never will be free if you value your time. Linux is free only if you dont value your time to keep fiddling with all those config files to get even a decent display or audio in linux.
Gnome is a Mac ripoff. KDE is a Windows ripoff. The others probablt stole thier ideas from other now defunct OS’s. If Apple or Microsoft stops invating in their OS’s, i wonder what will those so called uber desktop managers do.
Get a life - buy a Mac or Windows. Maybe you’ll get eduacted before psoting stupid rants like these. Amen.
Comment by Sid — July 4, 2008 @ 12:18 am
Oh, one more thing. I almost forgot the good ol “19xx will be the year of linux” . SO now its “20xx will be the year of linux”. Keep dreaming. Dont wake up.
Comment by Sid — July 4, 2008 @ 12:20 am
I value my time, so I run linux. Typical windows install makes me download / purchase: Good cd burning program, IRC program, Aim program, new browser, winscp, a media player etc — all windows people do this (well not winscp or irc, but they have their own deals).
I value my time, my OS comes with these programs, and auto-updates them for me. And most of us own Windows and Macs, or atleast run them in VMs from time to time. We are almost all employed in the tech industry buddy.
Comment by sharms — July 4, 2008 @ 6:30 am
I use Opensuse and i think you are an idiot. Telling all that BS is not the way to get people to like linux better
Comment by sanriver — July 4, 2008 @ 10:12 am
For all the people saying “Buy a mac” or “macs rule” think of this…
Windows = Whatever cost for new released OS (Exc Vista) - Free updates
Mac = £80 (each time a major update is done) - Some free updates
Linux = £0 (Flavour dependant), - Free Updates & Free Upgrades to next OS (Gutsy > Hardy etc), along with FREE CD requests if your wanting to have the CD. FREE Downloadable ISO’s.
Buy a Mac? No thanks! Macs and Winblows suck! Your paying for a brand.
All OS’s have upsides as well as downsides, get over it! Its your opinion, and keep it.
Fine, your a geek in a room/office/bedsit/box with a peecee/notebook (which STUPID people call laptops) and an internet connection, thus you think your unbeatable. Get over yourselves, disconnect, smoke some weed, have a drink, screw your sisters and live your life. You’re one person behind a monitor which is your only means of power.
Comment by bitchin — July 5, 2008 @ 4:18 am
If as much time spent on loving linux was spent on development of a linux based applications comparable to Windows and Mac offerings there would be no need for this (or about 95% of all) linux blog. Quit clogging the tubes.
Comment by factotum218 — July 5, 2008 @ 7:13 am
@95_bitchin: I like it; Get over it, smoke weed, have a drink. Way cool.
Comment by _xISO — July 5, 2008 @ 11:25 am
[...] [...]
Pingback by windows media player 12 — July 6, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
[...] you go! What does 300 get you? A bare minimum operating system with nothing but MS paint and Mediahttp://blog.sontek.net/2008/06/30/windows-hater-in-response-to-linux-hater/Paint - Interior Design - Virtual DesignersThis Old House paint - Digital Designer. brands featured: [...]
Pingback by paint brands — July 7, 2008 @ 1:10 am
@13: PJ, I have much the essentially the unit you got. I was able to get Etch 4.0.r3 installed. I use it as a travel unit-do not need the fingerprint readr or touch screen, else, everything else works, but I’m having trouble with the nvidia driver. When it comes out of sleep mode, fonts do not render correctly. Any help would be appreciated. Tried HP, the tablet and nvidia site, also are you using vbox ose or non ose?
Comment by Merlo — July 7, 2008 @ 3:22 am
[...] [...]
Pingback by windows media player 11 for vista — July 8, 2008 @ 1:22 am
[...] [...]
Pingback by vista paints — July 8, 2008 @ 6:20 pm
I find it hilarious how nearly every single person bashing this article clearly doesn’t know how to speak or spell their own native language. Number 100 by Merlo on the other hand, English obviously isn’t his native language. What’s everybody else’s excuse.
Just because Vista comes installed on a computer doesn’t mean that it’s easy to install. It just means that Microsoft has strong-armed the resellers to a point where they are forced to sell a crappy OS on their systems. I’m not going into that but a little research by somebody other than a moron reveals that pretty plainly.
No, Windows is NOT easier to use than Linux.
No, you do NOT need the command line to install drivers. Almost every Linux distribution comes with a “package manager” that lets you simple double click a package name and click install. No further “Next”, “Continue”, “Accept”, “Install”, “Finish”, etc. clicks are generally necessary. Games, drivers, apps, etc. are all installed the same way.
Yes, you CAN install from command line if you so choose IF YOU WANT. Linux comes with four ways to install the same thing. If you don’t like three of them, use the fourth.
Don’t like how your desktop looks? Change it.
Nope, If you install or use Microsoft Windows XP or Microsoft Windows Vista, then read the EULA. You do not legally own a cop